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In the Spotlight
Interview with Dr. John Dayton
Return to Golden Age – Mission Impossible!
1.6.2009.
American University in Bosnia and Herzegovina hosted a lecture by Dr. John Dayton, on the topic: “Gold and Greed: Ancient and Modern Thinkers on the Origins of Conflict”, given last week in Tuzla.
Dr. Dayton is a member of the academic community of AUBiH, where he teaches several courses in the field of English language and literature. In addition to AUBiH students and professors, his lecture was attended by English language students coming from the local public university.
In a rather entertaining presentation, full of colorful examples and mixed with humor, Dr. Dayton occasionally caused rounds of laughter among those in attendance, and also made his audience really think about human past and destiny. “When was the last time you actually saw a good movie about peace?” – Dr. Dayton asked his audience, adding that mankind is sometimes indeed a morbid species. This sort of communication thrilled Milica Trakilović, a senior student of English language and literature studying at the College of Philosophy, University of Tuzla, who said:” I must admit that everything about Dr. Dayton’s lecture was just great and I would love to come to another such lecture.”
He proved the evident link between the desire for material goods and evil by referring to many examples concerning ancient Greece and Rome, and explained its ‘evolution’ by stating the examples of the first socially emancipated philosophers, i.e. decadence philosophers. In the interview we had with Dr. Dayton after the lecture, he reveals why he disagrees with the thoughts of the first enlighteners in that context, concretely speaking, with Jacques Rousseau, the first philosopher who unified all ancient thoughts. As he says himself, Dr. Dayton inclines more toward the theological idea of original sin, according to which man is sinful because man wanted to realize his similarity to God without god, which is then transferred to entire mankind as a sin. On the other hand, Rousseau, who was thorn by moral dilemmas throughout his entire life and who inspired romantic literature on a permanent basis and thrilled revolutionary dreamers, claimed that we - humans of nature – are good and that it was the civilization and culture that spoilt us. In the following lines you can find out more about how Dr. Dayton explains the human nature and the switches from Golden Age to Silver and Bronze Age, and then ultimately the Iron Age.
When it comes to Rome, it seems there was a circle - war, peace, luxury- then again war, peace…
You said that “in the Roman world, the destruction of the longtime archenemy Carthage in 146 BC, was thought to have had an ironically disastrous effect on Rome itself; the Romans thought that, in the absence of an enemy which kept them stern and virtuous, they became soft, and luxurious, they acquired gross and swollen desires and began to quarrel among themselves…”. Then internal strives began, which then turned into civil wars.
Does that prove the circle I mentioned?
I think that the Romans envisioned that sequence, yes, but the important point to remember about a circle is that it can begin at any point. Sometimes they imagined their distant past as the Golden Age of Saturn, beginning in peace, but other times they thought of themselves as originally a hard, virtuous warlike people who became soft through peace in the way you describe.
Correspondence between material prosperity and war exist, it is natural and its substrates appear in the origins of the Greek thought. Can you explain why the Golden Age came to its end? Human life began in peaceful simplicity, proceeded to wealth and luxury, and ended in war, produced an essential philosophical template destined for a very long afterlife. One could say, today it's more obvious than ever before.
It's an intriguing fact that, unlike the Garden of Eden story, the ancient Greeks and Romans never really felt much need to explain why the Golden Race turned to silver and then bronze and then iron. It just happens without any of the poets bothering to explain it. It's as though they just felt that the process of decline was one of the laws of nature that was beyond explanation.
The Golden Age is special because private property did not exist at that time. Rousseau got it all together, claiming that private property is the cause of all evil. Could you agree with him when he says that man is noble by his birth?
No, I myself incline more toward some kind of belief in what the Christian theologians would call original sin, and I feel that this is one of those many times in which Rousseau followed what he wanted to think rather than the actual evidence from history. The impulse toward mass violence really seems universal to humanity - some anthropologists say that it's even found in chimpanzees.
You gave us a detailed review of the Golden Age becoming the Silver Age, then the Silver Age turning into the Bronze Age, and finally – the worse of them all – the Iron Age, the one we are living in. Since technology is evil, and having in mind that we have already stepped deeply into it - There is no coming back to “peace times“? Do you agree?
There are different strands of thought about technology among the ancients. Prometheus, the bringer of fire and technology to mortals, is for the most part a much-admired figure, but there is also a strong indication at times that technology cut humans off from the life that the gods intended for them. I think it would be logical to believe what you are saying if you also believe that a Golden Age existed - that once we have reached this point of technical development, it would be impossible to return to a peaceful primitive state. Since as you know I don't accept the premise of an original peaceful state, I don't think there's anything to return to. If humans ever rid themselves of war (and I'm not holding my breath), it will be through the increase of civilization, not through retrogression.
